INTERVIEW: RAMONES MUSUEM OWNER FLO HAYLER

photo by Brittany Constance

My first priority in Berlin was to make a b line to the only Ramones Museum in the world. I wasn’t even aware that there was such a thing before I booked my ticket to Germany. I just had a strong intuition that there was probably some sort of dedicated obsession to The Ramones so I googled “Ramones Berlin” and then… How do you describe the moment of finding your true destiny feels like? You can’t.

I spent half my day there, which really felt like maybe 45 minutes. There was so much random and amazing shit that I could immerse myself in. Then I found out that I could buy any of the Danny Fields prints right off the wall. I just had to. I went with “Joey Bonding With a Dog” (observation also by Danny Fields). The cafe girls called the owner, Flo Hayler, because everything is heavily screwed into the walls and he’s the only person that keeps the designated museum screw driver. He showed up and we started to make small talk about the museum and then I realized that I was talking to the only human being I’ve ever met who personally knew the Ramones and actually grew up with them. I told him it was imperative to my girlhood to ask him a lot of annoying questions about his German Ramones experience and the evolution of his worthy hoarding hobby.

one of the best things I ever bought

one of the best things I ever bought

What was the first Ramones song you heard?

“I Wanna Live” when I was 14. I think I saw the video and that’s how I got into it.

Why did the Ramones seem like they were so popular abroad and not in the states?

Maybe one of the reasons they are so famous now is because they were never famous. Until the end of their career they were always the underdog. A lot of people took them for granted because they were around for decades so people always said to themselves “Well, they’ll be back next year and they’re going to release another album which will sound like the other album.” They had to tour to survive because nobody bought their records.”

This gets you in for LIFE

This gets you in for LIFE

What’s the brief history of the evolution of your collection?

It started with the first time I saw the Ramones. I kept the ticket and ripped off the poster in 1990. I just accumulated tickets, shirts and posters as I kept going to shows. Then I got to know the band a little bit through meeting them several times and got stuff from them. I met Joey first in 1992 and he was really nice. He signed a couple of things for me but they were all really nice. Even Johnny was nice to me but that’s probably because he could actually communicate with me whereas the fans from Spain or Italy couldn’t speak English because they didn’t teach it in school at the time. But anyway that’s how I was able to ask for stuff like guitar picks, special edition shirts, set lists or other kind of basic behind the scenes documents.

I kept in touch with the band after they retired in 1996, mostly with Johnny and CJ but I was able to trade a rare Elvis Presley movie poster for Johnny’s unwashed stage worn jeans because he loved Elvis so much. But it was otherwise pretty easy to collect stuff because still no one cared about the Ramones in the late 90s. Everything started piling up so I had to put it all in boxes and my girlfriend decided that it became too much so when I got the jeans I thought I could make a Ramones museum because that’s not something that other collectors have. It was important to me to find out the brand, which were Levi’s 517 and the size, which were 34s.

Sounds smelly. I thought he’d be a lot skinnier?

Well I got these when he was already in his 40s. He may have started with 30s but you know these were like the advanced age jeans. But before I got the jeans in Berlin 96 I was talking to Johnny about what else I could buy or trade because I’m one of the fans and we like to have stuff and ask for things all the time because we’re horrible people. We talked about the leather jacket and his guitar but it was too expensive but then Johnny actually came up with the idea to trade the Elvis poster for jeans and two weeks later I got them in the mail.

Johnny's mid-life crisis jeans

Johnny’s mid-life crisis jeans

Do you think you’ll ever be able to acquire anything else that’s as iconic as the jeans?

Well I’d still love to have an instrument. I mean I do know people who have instruments willing to give them up for a price but the problem is that the item would be too valuable and irreplaceable that even if I had it insured, no amount could ever cover the loss. Just the fact that there’s one of Johnny’s guitars in the museum would absolutely invite somebody to break in. I’ve already had stuff stolen because there are fans that are just so fanatic that they can’t possibly resist. Sometimes I’ll notice something odd in the museum one day and it’s like “why does this look different” and then I’ll realize that someone tried to pry the screws out. Some people are really smart about how they steal stuff. I won’t say how but they have to have it so they’ll find a way because they want to be able to keep it in their own home.

That’s so selfish. It has be some kind of mental illness to not just steal but take and keep something that’s supposed to be appreciated by everybody that didn’t belong to you in the first place.

Yeah but on the other hand it’s like I give people stuff to steal, you know what I mean? I also have things in the museum that if you feel like you want to take it, go for it. Steal a shirt from the shop. Or I don’t know, take a book, I don’t really care. Just don’t steal the things that I only have one of. But I believe in Karma. If you steal things from the museum then you get run over by a bus. It’s just what happens. It’s logical. I steal things too I just make sure it’s not personal because people have a relationship to their stuff, even it’s stupid. But who knows I might get run over by a bus.

And then it’s like not only do you personally have a relationship to the items in the museum but so does everybody else. Whoever decides they’re going to steal a signed photograph is stealing from everybody who has a relationship to the item but in addition to getting run over by a bus, they’ll probably get pissed on, maybe by a dog.

My words exactly. But to finish this off, because a lot of people ask me what is my favorite item, the answer is I don’t have a favorite item. Every item has a reason why it’s there and why it’s located where it is in the museum.

Business casual punk office supplies

Business casual punk office supplies

Yeah it’s part of the narrative of the museum. How did you organize or process all the items into the museum?

Well it’s somewhat chronological, it starts at 1974 and ends at 1996 but every member has a chapter too.

Has anyone from the band been able to see the museum?

Yeah CJ has seen it. I think he liked it. When it first opened everyone was really supportive, especially people from the Ramones crew like Arturo Vega, who designed the Ramones logo, Monte Melnick, their tour manager and Danny Fields, their first manager who took a lot of the photos you see here. They all gave so many things to the museum that would have never seen the light of day.

The Danny Fields photos are really amazing. I actually wanted to ask about them because you have a whole wall of prints you can buy even though it’s part of the collection? How does that work?

Well the wall where you see Danny’s photos changes once a year. We’re going to take down whatever doesn’t sell this year and replace them with someone else’s photos. But Danny Fields was so close to the band that he was able to take pictures that no one else was allowed to take. Arturo Vega introduced me to him while I was living in New York for a couple of months. I told him about the museum and two days later I went to his apartment and he had four boxes of memorabilia and he said, “Just take it” and that’s what I did.

DISSSS

DISSSS

What did you find?

It was full of letters and things that I shouldn’t have seen or read. There were also documents with expenses on it and you’ll see that they spent 40 dollars on gas for a whole tour. He had detailed hand written notes for everything.

So as far as people have contributed to the museum’s collection, has Johnny Ramone’s wife Linda Cummings ever offered anything?

Well I’ve never met her. I’d like to.

I’m curious because I recently Google imaged her and there are several very uncomfortable sultry photos of her posing in front of his grave.

I don’t know, she’s from Los Angeles. I don’t really know what that city is all about but there’s the whole celebrity worship aspect about it. I mean his gravesite is a statue, you know? He was a celebrity in LA and everybody loved him there.

That’s surprising. He’s so surly in all his interviews. Did he turn into some kind of LA party boy or something?

Yeah he went out a lot, had all these dinners and Hollywood friends. Everyone was really nice to him. In the end I think he turned into a really nice person too. But honestly from a fan’s perspective Johnny was always the nicest. People that worked with him had a hard time but to us he was like a dad because we were kids. He’d always ask us “do you have money?” “Do your parents know where you are?” “Are you going to be here tomorrow?” “Can I put you on the guest list? Let me know when you’re there”. He just always looked out for his fans. In any city they were playing in he would look for us, wave us in, and say, “Now you’re in, enjoy the show, see you later.” That’s just what he did. And then every night after the show he would ask us how was the show. He didn’t care about anybody else’s opinions except for the fans. He even asked which songs we did or didn’t want to hear and why.

Flo's favorite pouty boy

Flo’s favorite pouty boy

Okay so you have all these amazing experiences and contributions to the museum but how do you find the money to open and maintain a specialty museum like this?

It’s very simple. If you have a passion that you believe in, you don’t mind that it costs money. I never really go on vacation. Other people like golf or cars or whatever but this is what I wanted. I don’t know why people have the urge to collect but I just like having this stuff and framing it and reading it every day and looking at it. Time and money was never measured. The best part is that someone from Texas or wherever will hear about it. It’s supposed to be a place where stories can be told and experiences can be shared. I want people to hang out and eventually realize they attended the same show 25 years ago. That’s the only reason I have this space. Punk is about community in my opinion and sharing and creating ideas and broadening your horizon.

Do people feel generally open to giving up their Ramones artifacts?

Not generally. Some are but it’s still happens quite a lot and I actually tell them to not send me things because I probably have them. And because I don’t have space. People try to send me stuff from before and after the Ramones era and I just can’t take it. But sometimes I’m surprised. There was a guy from Brazil who said he was going to send me all this Ramones stuff and wanted money and I told him to open his own museum in Brazil. Then one day there’s a huge box and I’m like “oh man, this guy sent his shit over” but I was able to use a lot of it and fork over some money.

party

party

What do people like the most about the museum?

I get a lot of old school guys saying that they like the fact that they have to read everything but I would actually like to have all the touch screen interactive gadgets. I see people walk in for five minutes and walk out because they don’t feel like reading. Kids always have to have their hands on something or they go crazy.

I actually really liked all the text because I could stay there for two hours and internalize everything.

Well exactly. Sometimes people tell me how great it is and then I ask them if they’ve seen the Garfield puzzle or some particular photo and they act really surprised and say no. If you’re not into the band that much and you think it’s just a bunch of photos then okay fair enough but there are a lot of things to be discovered, I think.

The great Garf puzzle

The great Garf puzzle

Yeah while I was there I never understood the people who would pay and walk through in five minutes and leave when you could easily spend several hours.

If you have a genuine interest then in the band then yeah, it’s easy to spend a lot of time here. I always ask myself how much time I would spend in a Rolling Stones museum and I have no idea because you don’t know how much memorabilia is scattered all over the world. In that respect the Ramones are a good band to collect from because there’s only so much out there whereas if you’re a fan of KISS or Metallica or Rolling Stones there’s no way to ever finish. Plus they’re still around.

Okay so it’s not the most impossible thing in the world to put together a Ramones museum. But why were they your chosen band?

Well I liked the music first of all but when you’re young they were the perfect outlet. They were hard and fast and catchy and you’d know all the words. It was kind of easy to join the gang and look like them because all you had to do was wear jeans and a t-shirt and leather jacket. And for me when I discovered the Ramones they were my band. Nobody else knew them except for a chosen path. They really were not mainstream at all. If you knew them it was your thing. People would ask “so why are you wearing that leather jacket?” And I would say, “Well, you know”[shrugs shoulder]. I didn’t want to share my secret with anyone else but now I do.

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